Der offizielle Eastcoast-Thread
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@ToxicMo
I see what you are saying about VA not really being the same as east coast hip hop. So basically ya sayin that "East coast" really has to be the Northeast, NY, Boston, Philly, etc.
I can agree with that too, but only to a point. Although DC/Maryland/Virgina is actually considered part of the "South" (its below the Mason-Dixon line if that means anything to you) my family in Miami would laugh if I said I was a "suthner" (southerner) because they talk with a drawl and say words like "dagnabbit" and shit. So to the real South, we are damn north. But in NYC they act like we still got slavery and shit, just because we use words like "y'all", and have a slight accent on the "er" sound (almost like Chingy right "hur" but not soo bad).
So if the North thinks were South, and the South thinks were North, what are we?
Thats where we get back to the topic.
Hiphop from my general area is like a boullabaise. We get all styles repped equally, with radio and local shows covering a broad range of talent.
So when local talent started developing, of course they would be influenced by all other styles. Its a combo of rhythmic beats and sometimes sing songy flows ala West-style, with a twist of gritty street shit thrown in there ala NY-style, with a love for ear deafening bass and bounce ala South-style.
Obviously the entire Virginia Beach, VA (not Richmond, its just the capital and probably where the label offices are etc) music scene is probably more "geprägt" from South and Midwest influences than NY/East influences. Some people would go so far to say that they are South.
But I would say, speaking from experience, that the mid-East coast is the only area that doesnt have a distinct style. We talk the best from other styles and turn that into one composition. At least I try to.
So, do you...
Agree? Disagree?
Still think I dont know shit?
Finally maybe a real discussion about hip hop with someone with a plan, instead of having to respond to people thinking that becuz i write in English and Im an Ami they think Im "machen eins auf der dicke" or however you say that shit.
I'll check back morgen.
Peace
I see what you are saying about VA not really being the same as east coast hip hop. So basically ya sayin that "East coast" really has to be the Northeast, NY, Boston, Philly, etc.
I can agree with that too, but only to a point. Although DC/Maryland/Virgina is actually considered part of the "South" (its below the Mason-Dixon line if that means anything to you) my family in Miami would laugh if I said I was a "suthner" (southerner) because they talk with a drawl and say words like "dagnabbit" and shit. So to the real South, we are damn north. But in NYC they act like we still got slavery and shit, just because we use words like "y'all", and have a slight accent on the "er" sound (almost like Chingy right "hur" but not soo bad).
So if the North thinks were South, and the South thinks were North, what are we?
Thats where we get back to the topic.
Hiphop from my general area is like a boullabaise. We get all styles repped equally, with radio and local shows covering a broad range of talent.
So when local talent started developing, of course they would be influenced by all other styles. Its a combo of rhythmic beats and sometimes sing songy flows ala West-style, with a twist of gritty street shit thrown in there ala NY-style, with a love for ear deafening bass and bounce ala South-style.
Obviously the entire Virginia Beach, VA (not Richmond, its just the capital and probably where the label offices are etc) music scene is probably more "geprägt" from South and Midwest influences than NY/East influences. Some people would go so far to say that they are South.
But I would say, speaking from experience, that the mid-East coast is the only area that doesnt have a distinct style. We talk the best from other styles and turn that into one composition. At least I try to.
So, do you...
Agree? Disagree?
Still think I dont know shit?
Finally maybe a real discussion about hip hop with someone with a plan, instead of having to respond to people thinking that becuz i write in English and Im an Ami they think Im "machen eins auf der dicke" or however you say that shit.
I'll check back morgen.
Peace
3headed Monkey
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well, you should definitely cut back on your attitude..just being an american doesn't necessarily give you any more knowledge about hiphop...and looking at what you've posted so far, i don't know why you should be "the one with a plan"...you whine about people talking only about the same few people, and all you mention yourself are a couple of guys who are highly commercially succesful either...why don't you mention someone like mad skillz who is from VA and released a really great album in 1995 that didn't get as much commercial response as it deserved? or why don't you mention the unspoken heard while being from D.C. yourself? your equation "good sound quality = commercial; shitty sound/flow/whatever = keepin it real, underground" (which is ridiculous anyways) can't be the problem here...cause those albums don't lack any of that...
and one last question...why do you post in english on a german board? if you've been to berlin for 3 years now, you should definitely be able to write your posts in german too...there ain't no reason posting in english (in my opinion)
and one last question...why do you post in english on a german board? if you've been to berlin for 3 years now, you should definitely be able to write your posts in german too...there ain't no reason posting in english (in my opinion)
1DollarPlaese
am Start
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- 13. August 2005
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- 46
Ey ich find die G-Unit echt geil ... aber naja ...
aka_Batircan
am Start
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- 28. Oktober 2005
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- 19
eastside is nur jay gut meine meinung....ich find das geschnulzte da drüben nur scheiß
@alexdyce: I respect, that you stopped frontin' and try to start a real discussion
So Im gonna stop playin dyce
D ), too.
Your tactical devices to evoke reactions are very polarizing, but now, that Im realizing, that you have actually something to say, I can handle it (at least, somehow).
referring to VA: you're right. I agree with your statement. If I think of the Wu-Syndicate (which is not much more than a minor Wu-derivate), associations of NY-HH come to my mind (its not that surprising). IF I listen to the aforementionend Freak, its more of a (very good) hybride of southern and midwestern style. Sage Francis (maybe u know his albums) is almost extraterrestrial, by any means very idiosyncratic, maybe not even "real" (this phrase was prostituted so extensively by jerks, who are completely unfamiliar with the genuine sense of the word, that I'm forced to put in inverted commas) HipHop.
anymore.
So VA is VA, not Eastcoast(speakin of HipHop culture and not of political demarcation lines like MAson-Dixon) in my individual interpretation.
I've not just listened to American HipHop for years; I really get INTO it, I can feel it. Lacking the experience of a ghetto life in an american city, you can call it empathy, if u want to. I stick to the culture in my very own way , but I don't necessarily know much less than an american HH-fiend. I absorbed Eastcoastculture to a degree, that allows me, to carve out a precise picture of this special cultural microcosm. Since I've heard the 36 Chambers the first time, I can't listen to German HipHop anymore, cuz it's gangsta stance is just too artificial to take it seriously. So, I also agree with your opinion in this aspect. But I'm provoked by the argument, that even a good-informed American HH-fanatic, who has a very individual insight of HH, too, knows more or better by definition.
And that was the message, I received, by reading your posts, but I guess, as I already stated, that its more of a calculated provocation aiming for attention.
Last but not least: Biggie, Jay-z, the intimidating bad DIpset Crew and Nas ARE Mainstream, no doubt! And so is Missy and Timbs. Some mainstream stuff aint that bad, but its the corrupted SPIRIT, which I despise (i shed tearz while following Mobb Deeps development in the last five years). "Underground" doesn't mean shitty sound for me at all. It can be brilliantly executed as well (thinkin of Mobb's "Infamous", and even more of "hell on earth" and "Murda muzik"; furthermore Non-Phixion has to be regarded, Cormega, Black Moon, the whole BCC and MFC.stuff, J-Live !! etc...... never ending list).
Props 2 u for getting into the territory of Common sense!!!
I'm out!
So Im gonna stop playin dyce
D ), too.Your tactical devices to evoke reactions are very polarizing, but now, that Im realizing, that you have actually something to say, I can handle it (at least, somehow).
referring to VA: you're right. I agree with your statement. If I think of the Wu-Syndicate (which is not much more than a minor Wu-derivate), associations of NY-HH come to my mind (its not that surprising). IF I listen to the aforementionend Freak, its more of a (very good) hybride of southern and midwestern style. Sage Francis (maybe u know his albums) is almost extraterrestrial, by any means very idiosyncratic, maybe not even "real" (this phrase was prostituted so extensively by jerks, who are completely unfamiliar with the genuine sense of the word, that I'm forced to put in inverted commas) HipHop.
anymore.
So VA is VA, not Eastcoast(speakin of HipHop culture and not of political demarcation lines like MAson-Dixon) in my individual interpretation.
I've not just listened to American HipHop for years; I really get INTO it, I can feel it. Lacking the experience of a ghetto life in an american city, you can call it empathy, if u want to. I stick to the culture in my very own way , but I don't necessarily know much less than an american HH-fiend. I absorbed Eastcoastculture to a degree, that allows me, to carve out a precise picture of this special cultural microcosm. Since I've heard the 36 Chambers the first time, I can't listen to German HipHop anymore, cuz it's gangsta stance is just too artificial to take it seriously. So, I also agree with your opinion in this aspect. But I'm provoked by the argument, that even a good-informed American HH-fanatic, who has a very individual insight of HH, too, knows more or better by definition.
And that was the message, I received, by reading your posts, but I guess, as I already stated, that its more of a calculated provocation aiming for attention.
Last but not least: Biggie, Jay-z, the intimidating bad DIpset Crew and Nas ARE Mainstream, no doubt! And so is Missy and Timbs. Some mainstream stuff aint that bad, but its the corrupted SPIRIT, which I despise (i shed tearz while following Mobb Deeps development in the last five years). "Underground" doesn't mean shitty sound for me at all. It can be brilliantly executed as well (thinkin of Mobb's "Infamous", and even more of "hell on earth" and "Murda muzik"; furthermore Non-Phixion has to be regarded, Cormega, Black Moon, the whole BCC and MFC.stuff, J-Live !! etc...... never ending list).
Props 2 u for getting into the territory of Common sense!!!
I'm out!
@3headed Monkey
ich könnte auf deutsch schreiben, aber ich kann mich einfach nicht so gut ausdrücken wenns um meine Gedanken und Meinung geht. Wenn ich einfach über irgendwas schreibe dann gehts wie jetzt. But everyone here understands english so well, and since we are talking about music done in english, I'm not that out of line.
My "attitude" as you say comes out of the basic fact that i have been in germany almost 3 years and have not found anyone i can relate to about hiphop on the same level. I am actually really surprised at the level of knowledge which you and ToxicMo possess, to that I will say that maybe i was wrong to put everyone in one category. But the fact is you are two out of thousands of people who claim to be hip hop heads but only wear G Unit t-shirts and listen to KISS FM. For them thats hip hop. In my first post I only wrote "theres more to hip hop than biggie nas jay", okay i did diss dipset, send me to jail. And mentioning "commercially successful" acts doesnt mean I dont know shit. I was being ironic in a way becuz they are commercial but no one mentioned them, or VA or anywhere besides NY at all. My comments werent at germans in general, more directed to little kiddies. How old are you guys? Im 25. Since you mention mad skillz you must be also be at least 20. That means you also probably have liked hiphop since before the Shady-Aftermath-GUnit era. Many of the posts before me sounded like they havent. AIIGHT I HOPE I CLEARED THAT.
My little equation is also not to be taken literally. All I was trying to say there is that many artists hide behind the label "underground" and use that as an excuse to continue producing music with shitty quality while never advancing their skillz. Then people who claim to know so much about hiphop spout off some names like eyedea or some shit and want me to believe im an inferior hiphop listener because i like music that is well produced and might appeal to more than just white jewish "real hardcore" new yorkers. Sure, there are many talented acts who for whatever reason decide to avoid trying to make a "mainstream" impact (I mean mainstream as in more than 100 fans, maybe even a song or two that SOME radio station could play, im not talking worldwide commercial sellout here) but the acts that do that to me are just dumb. The whole point of being a professional musician is to spread your music and hopefully make enough money in the process to be able to continue making music and maybe feed yourself and your daughter as well. Even so called conscious, political rappers (and by the way Unspoken Heard is actually a looseknit group of mcs and one, Asheru, happens to be from MD and i personally dont like him. Others are from NY or wherever) like Dead Prez, Common, Mos Def etc realized that fact and went semi mainstream in order to spread their message. So although my equation is a generalization, it is partly true. And saying that an album didnt get "as much attention as it deserved" is just not in tune with reality. The reality is that if anyone puts out a "good" album they should at least be able to get a song on a local radio station or here and there and slowly build a FANBASE, even if it means doing it their damn self! In some cases a record company or label might underpromote and in the end stifle an artist, but really at the end of the day its just an a excuse for not being well enough liked or not working hard enough, period. Those who have any "mainstream" appeal and true talent and (this is very important) WORK HARD will make it even if it takes 12 years like Mobb Deep to get worldwide acclaim (at least thats my optimistic view of things, I am also a musician and i dont want to start out thinking the industry is gonna keep me down regardless of my skill and appeal).
I hope you understand where im coming from now...
@ToxicMo
you alright dog
basically alles you said was on point.
And not being able to listen to german hip hop gets plus points from me, even if I can stand Sido and Harris from time to time
The way you write about east coast HH leads me to believe there are real hip hop heads in deutschland, as I had always hoped. In the future I wont accuse people of being soft without checking theyre background first. sorry for that.and i aint tryin to be provacative or calculated, i just am that way.
The one thing I will say to the contrary regarding the underground thing that i didnt say above is that, at least in the states, BCC or Mobb Deep was never underground. They just were never mainstream. They fell into that group of artists who had fans, did shows, but for whatever reason couldnt break into the everyday media. When Mobb Deep signed with Fif I groaned just like most of the east coast but looking from their perspective, it means nothing more than the best sound quality and production knowledge combined with worldwide exposure. Sure it must suck to take orders from a gay rapper who stole his name from another guy in his hood, but IMD have been in the game for more than 12 years and are finally gonna see some $$$. Maybe because I am trying to break into the german music biz at the moment is why I can see it from their angle. I will always stay true to myself and my music, but shit, I dont wanna be making music professionally 12 years long and have nothin to show for it...
Heres another ? What would you say is your favorite type of HH song? Conscious, gangsta, represent style, party style or just the classic storytelling mode? Depends on the mood? Or is Talib Kweli (z.B.) always in your box?
Peace to the god hour
Dyce
"always gambin"
ich könnte auf deutsch schreiben, aber ich kann mich einfach nicht so gut ausdrücken wenns um meine Gedanken und Meinung geht. Wenn ich einfach über irgendwas schreibe dann gehts wie jetzt. But everyone here understands english so well, and since we are talking about music done in english, I'm not that out of line.
My "attitude" as you say comes out of the basic fact that i have been in germany almost 3 years and have not found anyone i can relate to about hiphop on the same level. I am actually really surprised at the level of knowledge which you and ToxicMo possess, to that I will say that maybe i was wrong to put everyone in one category. But the fact is you are two out of thousands of people who claim to be hip hop heads but only wear G Unit t-shirts and listen to KISS FM. For them thats hip hop. In my first post I only wrote "theres more to hip hop than biggie nas jay", okay i did diss dipset, send me to jail. And mentioning "commercially successful" acts doesnt mean I dont know shit. I was being ironic in a way becuz they are commercial but no one mentioned them, or VA or anywhere besides NY at all. My comments werent at germans in general, more directed to little kiddies. How old are you guys? Im 25. Since you mention mad skillz you must be also be at least 20. That means you also probably have liked hiphop since before the Shady-Aftermath-GUnit era. Many of the posts before me sounded like they havent. AIIGHT I HOPE I CLEARED THAT.
My little equation is also not to be taken literally. All I was trying to say there is that many artists hide behind the label "underground" and use that as an excuse to continue producing music with shitty quality while never advancing their skillz. Then people who claim to know so much about hiphop spout off some names like eyedea or some shit and want me to believe im an inferior hiphop listener because i like music that is well produced and might appeal to more than just white jewish "real hardcore" new yorkers. Sure, there are many talented acts who for whatever reason decide to avoid trying to make a "mainstream" impact (I mean mainstream as in more than 100 fans, maybe even a song or two that SOME radio station could play, im not talking worldwide commercial sellout here) but the acts that do that to me are just dumb. The whole point of being a professional musician is to spread your music and hopefully make enough money in the process to be able to continue making music and maybe feed yourself and your daughter as well. Even so called conscious, political rappers (and by the way Unspoken Heard is actually a looseknit group of mcs and one, Asheru, happens to be from MD and i personally dont like him. Others are from NY or wherever) like Dead Prez, Common, Mos Def etc realized that fact and went semi mainstream in order to spread their message. So although my equation is a generalization, it is partly true. And saying that an album didnt get "as much attention as it deserved" is just not in tune with reality. The reality is that if anyone puts out a "good" album they should at least be able to get a song on a local radio station or here and there and slowly build a FANBASE, even if it means doing it their damn self! In some cases a record company or label might underpromote and in the end stifle an artist, but really at the end of the day its just an a excuse for not being well enough liked or not working hard enough, period. Those who have any "mainstream" appeal and true talent and (this is very important) WORK HARD will make it even if it takes 12 years like Mobb Deep to get worldwide acclaim (at least thats my optimistic view of things, I am also a musician and i dont want to start out thinking the industry is gonna keep me down regardless of my skill and appeal).
I hope you understand where im coming from now...
@ToxicMo
you alright dog
basically alles you said was on point.
And not being able to listen to german hip hop gets plus points from me, even if I can stand Sido and Harris from time to time
The way you write about east coast HH leads me to believe there are real hip hop heads in deutschland, as I had always hoped. In the future I wont accuse people of being soft without checking theyre background first. sorry for that.and i aint tryin to be provacative or calculated, i just am that way.
The one thing I will say to the contrary regarding the underground thing that i didnt say above is that, at least in the states, BCC or Mobb Deep was never underground. They just were never mainstream. They fell into that group of artists who had fans, did shows, but for whatever reason couldnt break into the everyday media. When Mobb Deep signed with Fif I groaned just like most of the east coast but looking from their perspective, it means nothing more than the best sound quality and production knowledge combined with worldwide exposure. Sure it must suck to take orders from a gay rapper who stole his name from another guy in his hood, but IMD have been in the game for more than 12 years and are finally gonna see some $$$. Maybe because I am trying to break into the german music biz at the moment is why I can see it from their angle. I will always stay true to myself and my music, but shit, I dont wanna be making music professionally 12 years long and have nothin to show for it...
Heres another ? What would you say is your favorite type of HH song? Conscious, gangsta, represent style, party style or just the classic storytelling mode? Depends on the mood? Or is Talib Kweli (z.B.) always in your box?
Peace to the god hour
Dyce
"always gambin"
Dick R. Reamen
Altgedient
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- 10. April 2004
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- 5.184
meine alltime top5 der eastcoast:
1. jay-z
2.biggie
3.redman
4.50 cent
5.gza
spart euch euer fifty gehate schonmal im voraus, reale spasten
1. jay-z
2.biggie
3.redman
4.50 cent
5.gza
spart euch euer fifty gehate schonmal im voraus, reale spasten
Dick R. Reamen
Altgedient
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- 10. April 2004
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- 5.184
Original geschrieben von neger187
du hast auch kein plan. wenn dir heltah skeltah eine punchline ins gesicht werfen, dann gehst du in brand auf
oh ja,die liste ihrer opfer is ja auch sooo lang
Bauerbasement
ist hier aktiv
- Registriert
- 15. Mai 2005
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- 331
Hi an alle!
Folgendes ist echt ernst gemeint:
Was ist an Biggie so krass...
Ich habe sein 2. Album, ist schon krass...
aber meiner Meinung nach gibt es schon viele krassere...
(Bin hal eher sso ein Wu-head:
Rae&Ghostface = kings of New York! )
Nein, aber ich ahbe auch Lieder von Biggie's erstem Album gehört! Wie gesagt: sind krass, aber ist der Inhalt jetzt so krass... (ich stehe 2 + im Englisch-LK, also versteh ich es...)
Kann's nicht sein, dass der von Puff Daddy so gehypet wurde, wie 50 und Game von Dre und Em????
Dass er (B.I.G.) also talentiert und dope war, aber nicht soooo dope????
Und noch 'ne Frage: Müssten nicht alle Eastcoastfans auf LL COol J fliegen????
Folgendes ist echt ernst gemeint:
Was ist an Biggie so krass...
Ich habe sein 2. Album, ist schon krass...
aber meiner Meinung nach gibt es schon viele krassere...
(Bin hal eher sso ein Wu-head:
Rae&Ghostface = kings of New York! )
Nein, aber ich ahbe auch Lieder von Biggie's erstem Album gehört! Wie gesagt: sind krass, aber ist der Inhalt jetzt so krass... (ich stehe 2 + im Englisch-LK, also versteh ich es...)
Kann's nicht sein, dass der von Puff Daddy so gehypet wurde, wie 50 und Game von Dre und Em????
Dass er (B.I.G.) also talentiert und dope war, aber nicht soooo dope????
Und noch 'ne Frage: Müssten nicht alle Eastcoastfans auf LL COol J fliegen????
-the-
Altgedient
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Die Äußerung zeigt, dass es einfach Gescmackssache ist...
Naja, ich vergöttere Biggie jetzt auch nicht grade, aber wenn du dir dieses Video reinziehst, wirst du sehen, warum er zu den ganz großen gehört, und da war er grad mal 17!!!
Link: http://www.planetvids.com/html/Notorious-BIG-Freestyle.html
BOOOOOOOOOM!!
MisterPink
gehört zum Inventar
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- 25. Februar 2005
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gib ich dir recht ist halt geschmackssache, -the-!
Ich z.b liebe die lyrics, den flow und die stimme von big und ich werde ich ihn mir auch noch reinziehen wenn ich alt und grau bin!Punkt!
Ich z.b liebe die lyrics, den flow und die stimme von big und ich werde ich ihn mir auch noch reinziehen wenn ich alt und grau bin!Punkt!
i think Biggie is a legend becuz:
1) he never dropped wack shit.
His lyrics and flows regardless what song, what freestyle, whatever are all tight! I can even name some songs from Eminem that I personally find horrible and wouldnt even call songs, but i dont know one song from biggie thats really HORRIBLE.
2) The Time.
If Biggie came out now, he probably wouldnt be considered a legend, because so viele Leute rappen jetzt. But in what was it 92 93 94 he was one of HH's pioneers, and one of the first to bring HH to the mainstream but stayed a "gangsta/playa/hustla" at the same time. Plus, how many current artists bite his lyrical style or flow? basically every rapper after him name Biggie as one of their influences. Baby Baby!
3) His flow.
His fat ass can flow. What else is there to say. I can show you parts of other "legends" songs where they sort of slipped up on the beat a lil- even Em said that on his first album he felt like he was always behind the beat, trying to catch up. Biggie just had real flow, from day one.
4) He got killed.
I dont think I have to explain this one. Anyone who dies at the height of their fame will always be remembered as they were at the height of their fame. maybe if we had seen Biggies career go downhill during 2000's we wouldnt call him a legend. For more info, see Jimmy Hendrix, John Lennon, Tupac, etc.
Obviously some people just dont find his music tight, thats called opinion. But when the greater majority finds his music tight, and agrees with my points, then he is considered a legend. And thats how it is.
Why is Big L not a legend? His flow and rhymes are also tight, but his voice didnt have mainstream appeal, in my opinion.
1) he never dropped wack shit.
His lyrics and flows regardless what song, what freestyle, whatever are all tight! I can even name some songs from Eminem that I personally find horrible and wouldnt even call songs, but i dont know one song from biggie thats really HORRIBLE.
2) The Time.
If Biggie came out now, he probably wouldnt be considered a legend, because so viele Leute rappen jetzt. But in what was it 92 93 94 he was one of HH's pioneers, and one of the first to bring HH to the mainstream but stayed a "gangsta/playa/hustla" at the same time. Plus, how many current artists bite his lyrical style or flow? basically every rapper after him name Biggie as one of their influences. Baby Baby!
3) His flow.
His fat ass can flow. What else is there to say. I can show you parts of other "legends" songs where they sort of slipped up on the beat a lil- even Em said that on his first album he felt like he was always behind the beat, trying to catch up. Biggie just had real flow, from day one.
4) He got killed.
I dont think I have to explain this one. Anyone who dies at the height of their fame will always be remembered as they were at the height of their fame. maybe if we had seen Biggies career go downhill during 2000's we wouldnt call him a legend. For more info, see Jimmy Hendrix, John Lennon, Tupac, etc.
Obviously some people just dont find his music tight, thats called opinion. But when the greater majority finds his music tight, and agrees with my points, then he is considered a legend. And thats how it is.
Why is Big L not a legend? His flow and rhymes are also tight, but his voice didnt have mainstream appeal, in my opinion.
I have nothing to add to point 4. But considering point 2, i gotta remind you of NWA, who had a vast commercial success with that gangsta attitude at first, in fact they even crossed over into the white american population, therefore spreading HipHop (along with Public Enemy) all over the country, infiltrating the stereos of caucasian teens. I think it was first and foremost Biggies sound: he is the founder of modern pop(or mainstream, if u prefer that) -rap, gave birth to nowadays omnipresent beat standards .Concerning this aspect he was even a lil bit faster than pac, if u x me.
Point 1 and 3 is mainly a question of individual taste, although I gotta concess, that his rhymestyle was innovative and influenced the upcoming mcee generation. But there are/were a lotta artists (Big L is one of them), who didn't/won't get the attention they definitely deserve, cuz hard work + talent (as u put it) aint always the only
relevant igredients to write your success story. Often serious, heartfelt and honest HipHop (to avoid "underground" or "real" or "authentic") has to be watered down to a less substantial, more more market-conform product lackin a lot of its original character, just to be recognized by the media and therefore a bigger audience. Some may be able to deal with the mainstream criterias without selling out their style too extensively, but the Mobb for example undermined its own reputation by flattening their lyrical deepnes (be honest and tell me P's rhymes don't sound damn tired and much less inspired on the last two albums) and forcing their rough sound into a more polished and clubby outfit.
I mean, I get your point, when u say, that being in the game for over a decade and not gettin the doe is frustrating, but there are artists who mastered the balance between "keepin it real!" and being a bit more accessible a lot better (I think of some Wu-albums or Pahraoe Monch with his solodebut; by the way: Where's dat dude?).
I'm not quite sure, if I got you right in our underground-mainstream discussion, but I think its not only the cash that should guide artistic development, it shouldn't be the major factor either, it'z the musical and lyrical values, the love even for a small cult following you (as an artist). Look at the BCC, Cormega or Masta Ace or whatever: they might not be "underground" in that manner u define it, but they are true to themselves, they didn't really alienate their style but kept it consistent.
Thats my word!!